Facing a two hour trip home from the latke party we were at today, I decided to do some catching up with my BFF. We'll call her Juana Paula because she really loves Pope John Paul II. This woman is a spiritual powerhouse. Juana Paula knows I've been trying to make this the year that I commit to Divine Intimacy. She also is familiar with my budding vocation to the Holy Family Institute, the branch of the Pauline Family that consists of married men and women who make vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. Without further ado, here is our conversation in which she gives some good spiritual direction, I do some turning inward, and autocorrect tries to ruin another life. I will be going by Stinky in this conversation, for I have been trying to convince Juana Paula that I can not only bilocate, but can do an interspecies bilocation as a stink bug. Her house is a stink bug safe haven. I'm the one that smells like coffee and chocolate. Our husbands also have highly appropriate alternative names. Also, please excuse the crazy spacing. I could only do so much while nursing the baby to sleep! Read on...
- Stinky
- Well thank you.
- So Divine Intimacy is kicking my bootay
- refrainig from inappropriate comment
Stinky
- Talking about finding God in silence, and not having idle excessive conversations and only talking as much as duty requires...
- hahaha stinkbug crawled up on my computer and is perched there looking at me.....you have given me a stinkbug neurosis. LOL
- only talking as much as duty requires??
- OK wait. I take issue with that because it was written by a man
Stinky
- Yeah. My stink bug self is seeking God in silence. Let me find the quote.
- Bear with me...
- :)
Stinky
- The rule of life for a consecrated soul (I think he refers to any soul who gives itself to God.. Not just consecrated religious) , even if she lives in the world, should always provide for the practice of silence; and if because of the demands of her duties, it is absolutely impossible for her to observe fixed times of silence, it is indispensible that she hold fast to this principle: To speak as little as possible with creatures in order to speak as much as possible with God. She must , therefore, accustom herself to keeping control over her words, thus avoiding loquaciousness, idle chatter (stinkbug talk? :-( ) , prolonged conversations, and excessive exchanges of confidences. The same norm which governs the use ofthe senses governs also the rules of speech-- it is to be used only in the measure required by duty or charity. Of course, it is certainly licit to talk for the purpose of taking some just alleviation or recreation, but always with moderation and within reasonable limits."
- honest opinon? He sounds like a tight ass :)
- OK I can see no gossip, no "idle chatter" and no chatting when you should be praying.
Stinky
- However it is not enough to observe exterior silence; we must also strive for interior silence, that is, silence of the interior senses-- the memory, imagination, sensitive feelings, thoughts, recollections of the past and users conjectures about the future.
- (that was another quote. Want more? Lol!) gonna read what you typed..
- Now every time I pick up this book I will think of his ass being tight. Great. *snort*. "then if I want to be recollected in prayer, I am unable to silence that little world of impressions, talk, imaginings, and idle thoughts of tight asses which continually brings me back to creatures.
- LOL
sorry....
- honestly though I think that his suggestions should be taken in moderation as well. especially since he writes this from a place of holiness yes, but also without an understanding of how women's brains work
Stinky
- "O Lord, I know that You want greater fidelity to silence and more care to avoid spending myself on creatures. Yes O God, I will be sent with creatures so that I can hear Your voice which speaks in silence...help me I Lord to attain this beautiful interior unity which notes all my faculties in silence in order to concentrate them on You, which makes my soul attentive to every one of your words, capable of perceiving the slightest inspiration and motion of the Holy Spirit."
Stinky
- Phew.
- You make a good point.
- When I read this description, I think of PJPII. He was always in prayer, even in the world. And admittedly a Carmelite is writing this and their charism is silent prayed/contemplation.
- Prayer. Not prayed.
- Oops. Typos in the prayer. Oh well.
- I don't want to feel like every time I speak to someone it is only because of duty or charity and otherwise I wouldn't speak to them. Perhaps it is my understanding of charity that is deficient?
- yeah but I think thats why i can relate to JP2 even though i am MUCH more Franciscan - because JP2 managed an "active contemplation" a way to be fully present to those around him and to be incredibly busy all day yet have an active prayer life
- he had his silent time in the morning and at night and some days in the afternoon, but his day wasnt consumed with silent prayer - not by a long shot. It was consumed by prayer because I think he offered up his business and had an "interior dialogue" going on with God throughout the day
but this reads to me like we need to be silent unless the kids are going to kill themselves lol
- Stinky
- I hate feeling like I have to have a detachment towards everybody. Like I have to love them with no feeling towards them. Just choose to love them and fulfill my duty towards my neighbor because of God. I guess in a sense that might be holier than doing it because we have feelings to make our actions easier. But then I feel guilty for having feelings.
- Stinky
- #confused #gettingscrewedup #damntwitterisstillsuspended
- oh dear! No no! GOD gave you feelings!!!! They are GOOD! They can be disordered, but THATS why we unite ourseleves as best we can to God's will and then we can trust that HE will, through the Holy Spirit and our Conscience correctly guide our feelings
- Stinky
- Soooooo I can only text you out of duty or charity? When I tried to do this--cut off my social outlets--I ended up with a near nervous breakdown. This scares me. But maybe I should be not afraid?
- no. i do not agree (and not just because I like texts)
- and texting me is a charity by the way lol
- Stinky
- Lmao
- (something tells me you'll never buy this one LOL!)
- i think the core of what this guy is getting at isnt that talk should ONLY be a duty or charity but that talking idly, gossip, and nonesense is not good if it detracts from our relationship with God. Proverbs says as much about idle gossip. But to reduce communication to "duty" or "charity" which I take to mean out of love or kindness) is unhealthy in some regards.
- lol you got my franciscan self all riled up LOL
- or maybe this wise man just didnt like people - sort of like Fr ------ writing a book on holiness -
- was this by any chance written in the victorian era??
- Stinky
- Hahaha I have five more readings until I am caught up. We no, he says any non-necessary conversation is time you aren't listening for God and too much will leave you "dry, dissipated and empty" and unable to focus in prayer because the chats will come back to distract you in your thoughts.
- Stinky
- Sounds almost like spiritual snobbery :-(
- yeah...a little bit.... and completely ignores the fact that women need to talk to lower cortisol stress hormones and to be able to focus.
- how about this one - JP2 who loved Carmelite spirituality used to talk for HOURS with is friends and collegues. HOURS and HOURS
- Stinky
- I get what he is saying... I know he is correct about advancing this way in the spiritual life...I have ways felt drawn to quiet and. Ontemplatikn, since my teen years, but maybe it isn't a calling for me.
- and when he went out with his youth group when he was a priest they used to joke around all the time...... #justsaying
- or maybe it IS but in moderaton
- Stinky
- Wtf!?!? Onttemplatikn!?!?!
- lol it sounds like a sea organism
- i think you discovered a new species!
- seriously I registerd it as "contemplation" and didnt notice LOL
- Stinky
- HAHAHAHAHAHHA
- I see the talk with the youth groupers as duty.
Juana Paula- but serioulsy, you feel drawn to it, so try to listen to the promptimgs but start small. 15 minutes quiet time in the morning, or when you finally get free time take the first 5 minutes, 3 minutes to quiet your mind and spend it with God.
Stinky - but serioulsy, you feel drawn to it, so try to listen to the promptimgs but start small. 15 minutes quiet time in the morning, or when you finally get free time take the first 5 minutes, 3 minutes to quiet your mind and spend it with God.
- I suppose it's all about making sure you aren't talking about pulling pork. Or about porking your hostess. *duckandrun*
- #shameful
- LOL
- nah still no guily about pulling pork LOL Our Guardian angels needed a laugh :)
- Stinky
- I either fall asleep or get interrupted by baby. Sad.
- you know what i think? you should pick a weekend and go to that monestary for a retreat.
- Mr. Fuzzy Wuzzy and I can take turns helping out That Poor Man Who Is Afflicted With You
- then you could sit in quiet and sort it out in your head and spirit.
- Stinky
- I used to awaken at 5 or 5:30 to do silent prayer. I either fell asleep or the baby woke up. Daily. Got so pissed off I quit setting my alarm.
- here is a question - how does the Pauline Spirituality compare to this Hard Core Carmalite??
- :(
- Stinky
- Wouldn't that be nice? Would love to do it in Bumpass Manor.
- I know ...maybe middle of the day would work better?
- LOL
- Stinky
- "dear God, they say you want more people to pray and give themselves to you on prayer, so do it my way or I'll get mad at you."
- Bumpass Manor is going to be awesome.
- lol
- Stinky
- Pauline is much more active. It's apostolate is sanctifying media communications. Up my alley.
- and yet they still suggest prayer time :)
- Stinky
- I say particular prayers, really focus on examining my conscience (you do it 3x daily) , frequent confession, and just doing your daily duties.
- They suggest a daily rosary and daily Mass if you can swing it but the bare minimum is the daily prayers and EOC's, trying to conquer your primary default.
- lol and what is your primary default? Mine is "stealth mode"
- :)
- Stinky
- Passing St. Francis de Sales.
- What is stealth mode?
- lol you said primary "default" instead of fault
- so I picked a default mode
- lo;
- lol
- Stinky
- Oh. Haahahaha!
- My primary default is caffeinated mode.
- #jealous
- Stinky
- My primary faults are likely sloth and anger.
- I get a little too distracted trying to sanctify the Internet.
- Hehehe
- can I ask a question - and tell me to back off if i am being pushy...but since starting the Divnie Intimacy thing are you more confused and ill at ease or less?
- lol
- Stinky
- Oh you never have to back off. Hmmm. I tend to combat my laziness by going for a really high bar. I decided in high school that I should join the military because I needed discipline. so for me it is like spiritual boot camp, a challenge. I am uneasy about not keeping up with it but that is my fault. Most of the readings are profound and make me want to strive for more and examine myself, but I havent kept up with reading much less spent any time meditating. I'd say I am frustrated but I want to be ascending the mountain. I don't know how else to achieve divine intimacy or what to meditate on etc... I just am aimless. It gives me focus.
- what about the Pauline Ministry? Do you feel called to it still? Do you find that it meshes with your spirituality and still challenges you to be Holier?
- Stinky
- I remember being on retreat in high school. It was fall or winter. The leaves were off the trees. We were outside. I felt really called to a religious vocation while there. There was a little tree or bush. It had a clearing under it. I sat there and it was "my spot". I never wanted to leave it. I wanted it to be my place of meditation forever. I can still see it. It is. I coincidence that my favorite book for years was Walden and I had only read selections from it. I wanted to name my sons Walden. No dice ;-) I have contemplative hermit in my blood.
Juana Paula
- :)
- Stinky
- Or else it is an ideal...a fantasy and that could very well be true. Lord this conversation could be my next blog post.
- Lemme see what you said...
- hmmmmm walden.....I like the name .......:)
- hey that would be a good post! :0)
maybe Bumpass manor's neighbor will be "Walden House"
- Stinky
- I feel that as a mother of a large family, and one who loves to communicate, although I do not overly socialize, it is a good fit. I wish to make the three vows someday. The Holy Family Institute does not necessarily conflict with where I have felt called. I am maybe thinking that my year portions of contemplation are what is conflicting with where God has placed me.
- Stinky
- Year portions!?!?!?
- Aspirations. Not year portions dammit.
- lol yea that one had me stumped LOL
- Stinky
- I am slow to let go of things. You likely know that by now.
- :)
thats why we love you
- Stinky
- It's like the parenting advice that I know does not work for my kids. It then I am paralyzed and thinking, "but now what?!?!"
- Ugh damn typos. It'll be a funny blog post if. Itching. NOTHING NOTHING!!!!
- *faint*
- LOL!!!
- Stinky
- So if I use this I will exclude your name.
- :)
- Stinky
- Now I am stumped.
- yes but will you include the awesome autocorrected words
- why are you stumped?
- Stinky
- Don't know if I should continue or just put it aside for my empty nest years.
- well......
- Stinky
- But boy if I could achieve this with a household of kiddies...* PRIDE ALERT! PRIDE ALERT*
- (I am trying to think of a good life doula answer)
- LOL!!!
- Stinky
- Home. Be back in a bit. Yes please give me your life doula advice!!
- can I ask another question? since starting DI have you been able to keep up with Pauline commitments?
- okee dokee ;)
- so my 2 cents is, if you feel called to Pauline vows and the HFI, then you are trusting that is where God is asking you to serve Him - in such a profound way that there are vows. If that is the case than I think your year of formation should include only things that will assist you in acheiving your discernment and keeping your commitments to the HFI. If something GOOD like DI is confusing or detracting from that than drop it. It will have its place, and you can concentrate on the requirements and commitments that are part of your formation.
Leading a contemplative lifestyle isnt out of the cards by a long shot since all prayer should, when properly ordered, lead us to contemplation, so HFI can still be a conduit for a more contemplative lifestyle - one that jives with your station and situation in life.
I am going off on another limb here but is it possible that the desire for contemplatoin and a "hermanuetic" or however you spell it) lifestyle is really a manifestation of your desire for God? and to be Loved by Him? (because - i say this with love - over stepping boundaries) because sometimes I think you forget to realize how much He loves you. Just loves you - and you dont have to do anything to make Him love you, He already does. And that while you strive to love and serve Him, its easy to forget that He is already completely in Love with you and that its a simple love that doesnt require you to jump through hoops to get to Him.
OK Im done....just thoughts.....going to go duck now :)
♥
- Stinky
- No. I think He doesn't know that I love Him. I do not show it very well. If you go by "Whatsoever you do..." and by the lack of time I spend with Him... When you love someone, you spend time getting to know him or her. You talk to them. I don't know...I have always-- and I told this so many times to Fr. Kelly-- imagined that I will be among those in the end who cried "Lord! Lord!" and in the end He says, "I never knew you. Depart from me." and He will do this because I failed to get to know Him, because I was too busy for Him, because of those predominant faults of mine which resulted in my treating "the least of my brethren" in ways I am not proud of.
Stinky
- I am a goat.
- There is more to respond to...
Stinky
- Right now I'm still in the postulancy. This phase will last another two to five months. If at that time we decide to go forward with the Holy Family Institute, we will enter the novitiate and receive the statutes, which will more clearly spell out what is required of us. I do know that a period of 15 minutes of meditation daily is recommended. Whether or not this will include DI is up for grabs. Have I been able to keep up with the commitments since starting the DI book? Not so well. But in general I have been quite distracted. There's been a nervousness that I have not been able to shake for some time. You would think that at this point I'd realize that what I'm doing to deal with that isn't quite working for me. I need some mental and spiritual valium. ;-)
"is it possible that the desire for contemplatoin and a "hermanuetic" or however you spell it) lifestyle is really a manifestation of your desire for God?"
ABSOLUTELY.
So yes, while I do not have to do anything to make Him love me, I know for a fact that He wants us to prove our love to Him. I do this in a very poor way. I don't know if I'll ever feel that I'm doing enough, I mean, however could I, or anybody for that matter? The best way I can prove my love to Him is to answer His call to holiness. I read recently that many people just aspire to purgatory, and that this is very sad, because it does not have to be that way. We should be aspiring to Heaven, not just to Purgatory. When I read about the saints who were wives and mothers, there was a serious contemplative dimension to their lives; some were even mystics. I realize that is a gift, but it's not one you'd receive if you weren't disposed to it, YK? I couldn't resist. I picked up the book about Bl. Anna Maria Taigi at Lectio Divina yesterday. I am not her. I will never be her. I am not Therese's mother. I will never be her.
But I'm not quite sure who I am supposed to be. I just want to be whatever will make Him happy and I'm not batting a thousand at that lately.
Stinky
- The book was published sometime around 1952. He loved people. "When I was young, I loved architecture and travelled to study the magnificent cathedrals that emerged through the centuries; and even today, coming across a monument of art, I take pleasure in it. But after having studied theology and when I began to draw near to souls, I found greater beauties, and nothing seemed more beautiful to me than to help them to live the life of God." Another quote from the book, "In 1935 Fr. Gabriel wrote that his desire was 'always this, to sanctify myself and to really love God, and make Him loved.' He wanted priests of his Order to pass on the rich tradition of Carmel, but to present it to souls of today in a language they understand."
And I think Father ------ has become much more personable over the years than he was when he started at S. H. back in '99. We both arrived at S.H. within a week of each other, so we've seen him evolving over the last decade. Definitely more personable.
- There you have it. And I, the Holy Wannabe, would like to give my sincere and profound thank you to Juana Paula, not a Wannabe in any way shape or form, for yet another spiritual counseling session. Really, you should be charging me by the hour...
No comments:
Post a Comment